"I am in the protection of Allah. If I am in the protection of this government, I would listen to what they say, I would stop my speech. I will continue my teaching as long as it is Islamic."

This article was a "Special Report: Yemen" in Q-News, another magazine produced to ease the concerns of most non-Muslims that their lifestyles will not be tampered with. At first glance, you would think that the editor was actually understanding of the Islamic message put forth by Sheikh Abu Hamza, then he reveals the true character within. It is always a shame when Muslims who know right from wrong grow up, become educated, then rush to join the crowd. The title of this article was "Part of the Madding Crowd."

And sure enough the madding crowd is the Islamic tabloids published by those who seek only to compromise their religion, way of life, Islamic principles, and their duties all for that "madding crowd." The Prophet (SAW) warned us in an authentic hadith that there would come a day when our religion which came as something strange, would return as something strange." In another hadith, the Prophet (SAW) pre-warned us that the people would look and judge that which is normal as abnormal, and that which is abnormal as normal, i.e. homosexuality, promiscuity, Muslims not championing the rights of Allah and upholding the Sunnah, etc.

Thanks to the many schools built to preserve the ways of non-Muslim troublemakers in the world, we now have Muslims who have joined in the trouble-making. Indeed this article which is being republished is important, yet a product of the madding crowd -- those who actually rushed to conduct an interview to partake in their "fifteen minutes" of fame during the Yemen 'conspiracy' against Muslims calling for change. And it is well known that everyone wants to know what you are all about once the troublemakers have made you famous.

This article will begin with the questions, statements and answers and leave off the commentary, which was indicitive of the editors accomplishments in higher education. The real defenders of Islam are interested only in Islamic education, so we will stick to that and leave all else alone. Let us begin...

Tell us a little about your background.

My name is Mustafa Kamal. I was born in Alexandria, Egypt. I studied in Alexandria University and then came to Britain, worked for a couple of years, got married, and then got an honours degree in civil engineering. Since I came to this country, I have studied religion deeply. Over the years, I built up my Islamic understanding and Alhamdullillah, I have come to some knowledge which Allah has given me to read in-between the lines and uncover a lot of Islamic truth, which is not clear to most of our people.

Unfortunately, I found some of our obligations are also under cover, and it is serious for a Muslim to ignore them. If you open your eyes to the truth in this society, it very clearly puts you in confrontation with some principles which are anti-Islam. You have to tell people about these, and once you become a cleric or Imam of the mosque, then your responsibilities become wider and wider. The present focus on me is due to both my position in the mosque and as the leader of Supporters of Shari'ah (SoS). I have no option, but to educate people about the real message of Islam.

Some have criticized you for being a self-taught man who has no sheikh, and nobody has given you ijaza.

The people who have been given ijaza give us nothing but headache. The university certificates are not called ijaza, they are a king or a president's approval for you to teach, and this approval is more political than religious. Every year, we have more than two or three thousand new scholars and hundreds of new glossy books. But at the same time, we see more usury banks, more abuses of Islam, more oppression and exploitation, more domination of our countries by non-Muslims. The question is: what's the use of all this 'Islamic' knowledge if it's not doing anything positive to Muslim people and Islam? What are these people really and teaching?

According to a hadith (saying) of the Prophet (saw) the best believing people are those who learn the religion from papers [sic]. It is a correct Hadith. When scholars are corrupt, Allah the Exalted, replaces them with Cd-Roms, computers and pieces of paper. If scholars are corrupt and hinder the way of God and put themselves before God, then they are not worthy.

Who are the Supporters of Shari'ah?

Supporters of Shari'ah (SoS) was formed in 1994, following a mashura (constitution) between some brothers, who have been involved in jihad in Bosnia, Afghanistan, and to give the message to the average Muslims - message which is being hindered by non-Muslims and also by Muslims who like to give the point of view of Islam which does not oppose the enemies of Islam. We are established to defend the Shari'ah, the Islamic law, and also to defend the people who are defending Islamic law. Some of these people are already killed and others are in prison. We have correspondences in the lands of jihad, here and there, and we welcome jihad of Islamic groups who are interested in defending Islamic law. We also give people advice to go for training to help fellow Muslims, and not to be deceived by the Western European society.

How many members does SoS have?

We don't keep track or records of members, both for their own security and because we are not a fundraising organization. We are only interested in saying the truth and supporting the cause of Allah. We have plenty of sympathisers rather than members, and they are thousands in this country and abroad, as well. We ask those who are very sympathetic to us to leave this country and try to make the future in an Islamic environment and save themselves and their children, and help their fellow Muslims. So basically, the more Muslims we have, the less Muslims we have.

What is your agenda for Muslims in this country?

Not to melt in this society, To take from this society what is good for them an leave it when it is dangerous. Not to plan their future life and death in this country. Treat this country for what it is: a vampire land which is thoroughly anti-Islam and Muslims. We need to give them an invitation to Islam and this does not mean that just because we are in their land, we do not enjoin what is good and right and forbid what is evil and wrong. We have to tell these people that they need Islam. When it comes to civilisation, lights, electronics, yes they are ahead of us and we do not want to deny that.

I am not anti-Western. I respect knowledge, but they are paying too much price for what they call knowledge and civilisation. So they have to be told about the truth of Islam. They need to have a proper window where they can ask about true Islam and where nobody hides Islamic principles from them. Sometimes, Islam teaches people to defend themselves, to use the sword.

So are you asking the better Muslims to go to the Muslim world?

I tell them to go to a Muslim environment, not a Muslim country, because in our countries we have Muslims, but we do not have Islamic states (up until now, which is Afghanistan). We say to go to the villages of Pakistan and wherever religion is still conserved, the honor of our family is preserved. And they should have some say in those countries to enjoin the good and forbid the evil.

Is that not a bit patronising? Here you are in Shepard's Bush, what makes you think you are good for somebody in a village of Pakistan? All you have which they don't is the protection and security of the West.

It is very immature to think about a certain person and ignore the principle. I immigrated from this country in 1990, but I was injured in 1993, so I had to come back for political, as well as medical reasons. There was a conspiracy to hand me over to be executed in Egypt. This is not the case of the 17 million Muslim people in Europe and 10 million Muslim people in America. They either stay there and struggle to expose the regimes for what they are to help the people back home, or they go back and they start having an Islamic environment rather than having a lesbian Muslim girls and gay Muslim boys, bad society and disrespect. If they are capable of carrying a struggle to expose the the tyrannical regimes for what they are and they are going to be executed and have no choice, then stay in this bad environment, but at least raise your voice and do what the inside people cannot do.

What do the 30 million Muslims living in the West have that enables them to change a situation that those in Muslim world do not have? What is so special about us except that we are still living in the West? Isn't it the very fact that we are part of the Western world that gives up the strength?

No. Individual strength which destructs the nation's strength is not strength, it is conspiracy. If you are living in the West, you have to keep your Islam, and Islam does not say that if you see your brothers and sisters being bombarded by the people that give you food and drink, you have to be loyal to them more than Islam. That loyalty in Islam is called conspiracy. These Muslims living in these countries are earning, eating, smiling, and not doing anything for the brothers who are being killed by this society which is harboring them.

Islam gives you a responsibility not to live among the mushriks (idolators). A hadith narrated by Imam Tabarani, says: "I have distanced myself from anyone who lives among the pagans and the mushriks." So for Muslims to live among the pagans, they have to show they are doing this because they have no other choice, they are keeping their loyalty to Islam, otherwise they are going head on against the principles of the Prophet (saw) and the verses of the Qu'ran. It won't help us that we live nice and dry here in Britain (or in America) today, when we meet Allah, the Exalted, the Hereafter.

Is the loyalty you are referring to a loyalty to a land, to a state, to an individual like yourself?

The Prophet (saw) said religion is about loyalty. Loyalty to Allah, the Prophet (saw), the leaders of the Muslims, and to the Muslim force. Loyalty to Allah means you obey his verses. There are no Muslim leaders who deserve loyalty (except Amir ul-Mumineen of Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan and the leaders of Jihad in Chechyna, Nigeria, Algeria, Philippines, Kashmir, etc.), but your loyalty should be to the Muslim people. That means if you see Muslims who are dying because of sanctions imposed by pagans upon them, or because of policies which the kafirs who harbour you have issued, then your loyalty to Muslims means you try to do something about it. Even if you lose your life delaying the process of killing some Muslims even by five Muslims that is not a loss. That is the definition of loyalty in Islam.

You give the impression that Muslims in Britain live a nice comfortable life, but statistics show that over 80 percent are living below the poverty line, in an Islamophobic society, and so they have many of their own problems to deal with.

This is hypocrisy, because the poverty line in Britain is the rich line in our own countries. You measure yourself to be poor compared to Lord John and Marks and Spencer, and the most rich people, but Muslims in our countries don't have one fraction of the privileges of freedom of speech or freedom of wearing or freedom of neighborhood that you have. To keep hunting for the rest of the dunya or the earthly world and leaving your brothers struggling to have the basic needs is nothing but hypocrisy. You should measure yourself with the standard of the Muslim people in India, Egypt, Pakistan, and then you'll see yourself a tyrant.

From the Islamic point of view if we don't care about our brothers we are criminals in the sight of God, and we are not a good example for anyone to come to Islam. These people don't respect us if they see us selling our religion for a degree, or a house or even for a mosque.

Some people might say you are a coward for sitting safely in London and giving orders. Shouldn't you be on the battlefield?

How do you think I've lost my hands and my eyes? Did I lose them in the lottery? Ask the Muslims in Afghanistan. When the light goes off, Muslims are running to the mummy's, they can't even walk in a dark alley in England.

So Muslims who go and fight should be prepared for all the consequences?

Of course, we should be prepared to defend the truth. We are not fighting from the Genghis Khan idea that we just want to be fighters. If it is necessary we fight but if there is no land or no avenues to fight then the truth must prevail, and we must say the truth. This is in the Qur'an. Before the Prophet emigrated to Medina he wanted to know if these people were men or just chickens or pussy cats. He said before I emigrate to your land you must promise me to say the truth. I hear people talking harsh about the West from Afghanistan and when they come to to England they are pussy cats. You must talk about Islam in Afghanistan as you talk about in Makkah, in England.

Because it is not a message for me and you, it is a message for the entire world. Everybody has a right to know what Islam is all about and I think Muslims have sold Islam very cheaply.

How would you feel if the five British Muslims in Yemen were found guilty and executed?

Found guilty by whom? If they were found guilty by an Islamic regime, breaking the Islamic Shari'ah, then that would be very shameful. But if they are found guilty according to a tyrannical regime, then they have everything to be proud of if they are the soldiers of God.

Where do you think the soldiers of God are going to stay? Here in the Hilton or Piccadilly Circus?

They must be on the battlefield for the Islamic cause and be hated by the people who like earthly matters. If they have gone for the cause of Allah then nobody should be upset for them.

The Western media suggests you sent them there. Is that true?

I don't send particular people. I know only how to send myself. I talk openly about the principle. Our organisation is monitored and censored by all these people, and so even if we want to do something, we don't have the ability, because it would be dangerous for people to take instructions from us.

I give a message. I say to Muslims get out of these societies, they are toxic for you, they will damage your religion. Go and support the cause of Muslims with regards to Jihad.

What is your expectation from the British Foreign and Commonwealth Office with regards to the boys arrested in Yemen? Do you think the FCO has a moral responsibility to protect them?

According to them they already have and I don't like to raise the racist card as soon as a non-white person has a problem, even though my son would benefit from this immediate slogan.

But it is not fair or Islamic to raise the racist card. I think Islamically as Muslims we should help them and not keep asking the non Muslims to help them, because they are British. If we are a twisted stick, let us not look for a straight shadow, because the reality is that if we are a twisted stick our shadow will be as twisted as we are. If we are not helping our brothers who will help them?

Until now, I have not asked for my son's protection or any help from the other side because it is degrading. We have a struggle with our own people and then we ask the supporters of this regime to protect our sons?

But the Yemeni government wants to extradite you and you are literally in the protection of Here Majesty's government

I am in the protection of Allah. If I am in the protection of this government, I would listen to what they say, I would stop my speech. I will continue my teaching as long as it is Islamic. This is not arrogance, it is just the truth. Just because I am in the house of the Pharaoh does not mean I have to be quiet about the Pharaoh. If I am being looked after by the Pharaoh, I have to be the Moses in the house of the Pharaoh. This is what Islam has taught us.

Would you be disappointed in the British government if they sent you to be put on trial in Yemen?

I have been disappointed in the British government since their first crusade against Islam, before I was born. Why should I be disappointed about personal matters more than about the general ummah matters? What is a greater loss for Islam - one person or the loss of a principle.

If you are telling all Muslims to go and fight abroad, then why are you not taking the lead?

I have done my bit. I have taken the lead. I migrated to Pakistan with my family and when I was injured they stole my house, then threw hand grenades in my house to execute me. They arrested three people with me and I managed to escape. When I cam here the order for extradition had been asked in Egypt, Algeria and many countries. So I have done my bit. I didn't come here and sit under the carpet. I sacrificed my job as an engineer. I have taken a job which has put me right in the focus or every enemy of Islam and I am still taking about it until now. I am not Jesus Christ, I am not your example. I am telling people of their obligation in Islam.

So Muslims should go to fight, blow off a few limbs and then come back to to Britain, like yourself?

This is what the Sahaaba have done. I am telling you about the religion of the Sahaaba, the religion of the Messenger of Allah (SAW). If the Sahaaba had gone to work with the Romans and their toilets like Muslims are doing here, they you would have never been a Muslim. The Sahaaba have taken the initiative, they took the sword, they gave the message.

How would we be Muslims if the Sahaaba had taken a work permit with the Persian empire and all other empires. We have to ask ourselves that question and not continue the mistakes of our grandparents.

They have be stopped. I am not interested in the majority of Muslims to follow me, I am interested in the sincere Muslims, who enjoin good and forbid evil wherever we are.

So in your opinion is there no justification for Muslims to continue living in the West?

In very difficult circumstances only, which does not apply to 95 percent of the Muslims in any Western country. Why should we migrate to the West? Why should we go back and struggle with our own countries? If people have a genuine reason similar to mine that is different. Everyone has their own reason between him and Allah.

I don't search people's houses and ask them what they are doing here. I am giving a general message for anybody who wants to have reckoning for himself before the Day of Judgment. If he has a justified reason to stay here it is between him and Allah.

What about the scholars who say it makes no difference whether you live in the West or not because there is no real Darul-Islam anywhere.

(At the time of this interview February 1999, it was not clear that Islamic Emirate was in fact Darul-Islam.) Our immediate duties are to regain our countries and make them Darul-Islam. Before we fight the West, we have to fight our origins to make our countries Islamic regimes. When we tell people to go back to our countries, people make mockery out of us, because they say our countries are more corrupt. Yes this is true, but our countries have many Muslims and an Islamic atmosphere. It is our duty to change them from Darul-Kufr to Darul-Islam.

So there is no way we can be both British and Muslim?

If you say you are British in the sense that you are giving your address, there is no problem. But if you say you are British and a Muslim in the sense that you cancel verses in the Qu'ran, because you are British that has no respect in Islam. Every Muslim who voted in this country has the blood of the Iraqi people on their hands, because they recommended the government who has killed the Muslims. Voting might give us benefits, but why should we have benefits at the expense of others?

In Islam, in any fair religion, you cannot push your misfortune to other people.

Do you feel any responsibility for contribution to the Western media stereotype of Muslims as terrorists and religious fanatics? People across the country are now thinking that Mosques are sites of military training and terroristic activity rather than the houses of Allah. How good can that be for inviting non-Muslims to Islam?

It is because you are defeated inside that you think this is true. Have you ever seen non-Muslims queuing to come to Islam and we turn them down because we are fully booked? Instead, we have seen Muslims queuing to go out of Islam by being lesbian and gay and using interest-based mortgages.

If you cannot keep your Islamic identity why are you thinking about one John or Shirley who comes to Islam every blue moon, and doesn't last long anyway. You shouldn't be interested in that, you should be interested in keeping your own identity in your own society and keeping Muslims as Muslim. You should give people the right idea about Islam, so when they come into it they see it as it is and don't say this is not the Islam I've been told about and they leave Islam in the middle. They have to know that Islam is about from A to Z.

This whole episode has come at a time when a section of the British Muslim community are quite happy with their acceptance into British society. They believe that finally some doors have been opened for them in the corridors of power. What advice would you give to these people?

Islam says to be a tail in the truth is better than to be a head in the falsehood. Let them be tail in the truth and follow Sahaaba. They might be a head, but a head in a tyrannical government. Let us be happy to be in the safe group, who are the followers of the Messenger of Allah (SAW). Let us be poor and clean. Let us have difficulties in this time and peace in the next time.

Question: what are the real reasons behind America’s war against Iraq?

Reply:

America has seen a trend of rising unemployment and fewer resources in its economy. The East has resources and cheap manpower. The problem for America as a consumer of resources is that many Third World countries will want greater control over their resources and their affairs in general. America wants greater control over the Third World’s resources. They are already in the Arabian Gulf and want an endless supply of cheap oil. If they leave matters alone for much longer they foresee a rise in Islam in the Middle East. They need to take over the land and punish those who oppose them.

American soldiers help to reduce unemployment, as the military is a major employer. The Zionists have ambitions in Iraq too. They need certain events to take place at certain moments, which they have in common with American Christian Fundamentalists. The two are collaborating to help bring about Armageddon – the massive world war before the coming of Christ. American Christian Fundamentalists believe in the return of Jews to Israel, the rise of an anti-Christ, a new world government and a final battle of Armageddon as key features in God's plan. This must be fulfilled preparatory of the Second Coming of Christ. The Zionists are very happy to cooperate as they receive huge amounts of aid from the Christians in the interest of hurrying along Armageddon which is believed will take place in the Middle East.

The September 11 attack was designed by the Zionists to speed up the attack on Iraq and to control Muslims before they got out of hand. The removal of Saddam Hussein was a crucial part of the strategy because they saw Iraq as their biggest potential threat to them gaining total mastery of the Middle East. Israel would have to win broad American support for the plan to succeed.

Four months before the September 11 attacks, there were demonstrations everywhere supporting the Palestinians against Israel. So, another news item had to be created to demonise Muslims. In the meantime, many naïve Muslims in the USA thought that they could play the same political game as the Zionists by forming their own lobby group similar to the Zionist lobby. They began lobbying American politicians. Initially they had some success. The world began opening its eyes to Palestine. The Zionists saw they were losing the public relations battle. They realised something had to happen to put the Muslims in a bad light. Many Muslims see America as the root of the suffering of the Muslims. Some of them were used to carry out the attack.

The FBI, who planted a spy into an Islamic organisation, carried out the 1993 attack on the World Trade Centre. He was a criminal who was bribed to plant evidence upon sincere Muslims and then give evidence at court against them, which he did. Although the bomb went off in the basement, the building remained standing. So they had to try again.

Steel does not collapse. If you look at the sequence of events before the twin towers collapsed it looks like a series of explosions. The pictures show the symptoms of an explosion: - the flash of light and the dust being blown upwards against the force of gravity as in an explosion. (Abu Hamza used his knowledge of civil engineering to give a detailed account of how the building collapsed as a result of explosives being planted at key structural points).

The Zionists have a concept of ‘Eretz’ Israel, or Greater Israel. This includes present day Israel, and the whole of Arabia to Iraq. It also includes the holy cities of Mecca and Medina and is shown in one of their coins. The Zionists encouraged immigrations of millions not just from Russia and Eastern Europe but also from Ethiopia. They need to increase their population to help them achieve the aim of Eretz Israel.

American involvement in Israel is unquestionable. In the last three years what have been the resources to support the Israeli armed forces? They have no natural resources. They get their military funding from the USA and the major banks.

Q. What is your solution?

Reply:

The solution is in the Qur’aan and Torah (the eventual annihilation of the Jews has been predicted). They (the Zionists) are stupid. They are creating hatred for them throughout the world. Eventually, the people will not be sorry when that happens (the final annihilation of the Jews).

The Jews can live peacefully in the Islamic state as they did in the Ottoman Empire, when they even reached important positions in the Ottoman state. They are moving all the time to create trouble and ignite wars. They are igniting a war against Iraq. Allah is using the Western people against them as we saw in the march on Saturday.

Allah promised that the Jews would be the subject of torture and suffering for killing the Prophets and for their evil policies. They were cursed by the prophets Solomon and Jesus (peace be upon them). They see all non-Jews as no better than donkeys. They see themselves as God’s chosen people and superior to everybody else. If you are not from their lineage then you are booty to them.

Q. Will there be more show trials of Muslims?

Reply:

Yes. Especially in Germany where there are many Muslims. Britain is following that too. Here the police resisted the law to arrest on suspicion of committing terrorist offences. However, some police officers when they are after promotion will arrest on suspicion to make their work record look good.

The last defence for human rights is the justice system. Some judges are trying to be honest. Some are bribed. You expect the worst. We are living near in a condition similar to the Meccan time: - we have the right principles but not the power.

Government ‘scholars’ are telling us to avoid speaking the truth. We have to tell the truth without being insulting. People are frightened of coming to talks such as this one. There is a climate of fear amongst Muslims.

Q. Some allege you are not qualified to be a proper scholar, in other words you are ignorant. What do you say to that?

Reply:

What qualifications did Omar (the second Khilafah and a companion of the Prophet) have? What Qualifications do all scholars have? They wrote books and had opinions. These big scholars did not have a special qualification qualifying them to be scholars.

It is important to be educated and have qualifications. But many scholars are now studying under the sponsorship of tyrants, which means they are compromised. Their qualifications are meant to satisfy the particular tyrant who is sponsoring them. As soon as a scholar differs from the ruler’s stance then he is kicked out.

In medieval times people had to rely on sheikhs who were plentiful and practically cheaper than paper! That is why they said you must rely on a sheikh. Today, information is available in books and computers. All one has to do these days is to read. You can even phone a scholar for an opinion. We have direct access to Islamic information these days.

Nobody can tell you that he is a sheikh to shut you up! These days’ compromised scholars try to shut up criticism by asking, “Who is your scholar?” as if only scholars have monopoly on the truth! When Omar told the people that they were paying too much dowry in one of his khutbas (sermons). A woman stood up from the congregation and told him that he was wrong and Omar thanked her for it! He did not ask, “Which scholar do you follow? What are your qualifications?”

If you speak on a matter of religion then all you have to do is to bring your evidence. There is no age barrier. Even a child is entitled to talk on Islamic matters if he has the evidence from Qur’aan and Sunnah (actions and sayings of the Prophet – peace be upon him). If you can show the evidence then nobody can rightly dismiss you for not being a scholar. The Qur’aan tells us that even the Queen of Sheba who was a kafir said something correct. Truth is linked to Allah. Allah is the ‘Truth’ because that is one of his names. You cannot undermine the truth.

Q (From an Evening Standard Reporter) Are you Extreme?

Reply:

What is the balance between extreme and non-extreme? I came from Islam. That is why I think that Islam is the middle of everything – the middle path. You might be the extremist! If you are sincere then you need to tell me what is extreme. (The questioner failed to define ‘extreme’ and did not answer Abu Hamza).

I never advocated violence against British people.

Q. (Again from the Evening Standard reporter) Are you mad?

Reply:

What do you mean by mad? I told you that what I say comes from Islam. You might be unbalanced from where I am. Let me ask you a question, were you created or did you create yourself?

(No reply

Were you created or did you create yourself? (No reply) When you answer that question then we can talk.

Q. Should the Ummah be revived?

Reply:

In Bosnia they forsook their religion and trusted the United Nations (UN). After three years of losing the war they realised that they had to return to Islam. When they did that, then they retook their own territory back from the Serbs and looked like winning the war. The Kuffar became seriously worried and pressured the Bosnians to stop fighting and sign the Dayton agreement. They will have to pay the price for trusting the Americans. The example for us in the UK is the Prophet (peace be upon him), who when being surrounded by disbelievers had to give the message without being confrontational.

Whenever we make a statement in support of the British public that is never reported! Do not believe the media. Help each other and that way at least achieve something. The priest of Saint Thomas’ church defended me. The media did not report that. Rumsfeld did say that he would bribe journalists to make life difficult for Muslims.

If there is an Islamic environment somewhere, then the Muslims can help each other. We need to talk to the non-Muslims. We need to set an example of good behaviour. Muslim traders ought not to overcharge customers. Islam grew in Indonesia because of the good behaviour of the Muslims who settled there from the Middle East.

People will not respect us if they see us hustling for money. Some people say, “If we judge Islam by the behaviour of today’s Muslims, then I would never accept Islam.”

Certain people with their own agenda have hijacked Islam. The non-Muslims are not interested in Islam. At Finsbury Park, we put tables outside the mosque with Dawah (Islamic propagation) material laid out and many people have accepted Islam.

The land is fertile for dawah. Sadly, Muslims are becoming more apologetic rather than active. Many sisters are more active than the brothers.”